TIM BLAIR'S BLOG ON LEUNIG

Tim Blair

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<< TOONS SPOKEN OF ~ MAIN ~ MO' MOTOON NEWS >> GLOBAL LEUNIG It’s international Michael Leunig mania! The celebrated Australian peacenik’s entry in an Iranian Holocaust cartoon contest—in fact, Leunig’swork was submitted by a prankish Leunig activist—has won worldwide notice, from Le Monde to the Sydney Morning Herald: Renowned Australian cartoonist Michael Leunig has submitted the first entry in a controversial contest for cartoons of the Holocaust launched in Iran today in a tit-for-tat move over the caricatures of the prophet Mohammed that have enraged Muslims worldwide. “As a show of solidarity with the Muslim world, and an exercise in free speech, I would like to submit a cartoon to you on the theme of the Holocaust,” Leunig was quoted as saying on Irancartoons.com, the website organising the competition with Iran’s biggest selling newspaper Hamshahri, triggering outrage in the US and Germany in particular. Leunig has also earned coverage in the European Jewish Press, Islam Online (love the pic!), Melbourne’s Herald Sun, the Middle East Times, and South Africa’s News 24. Well done, Michael! In other Leunig news, the Euroa Gazette reports he recently drew a large cartoon in opposition to a waste disposal facility planned for Violet Town. UPDATE. The fun is over: Renowned The Age cartoonist Michael Leunig says a cartoon apparently submitted in his name to an Iranian newspaper seeking entries on the theme of the Holocaust is a fake. Leunig has demanded that the cartoon and words written under his name be removed from an Iranian web site. UPDATE II. Items falling for the Leunig prank also ran in Bahrain, China, and Italy—although the latter has since been withdrawn. UPDATE III. Leunig and his newspaper are extremely concerned: Mr Leunig said he first heard that some of his cartoons had been submitted to the competition following a call from a concerned executive at The Age newspaper in Melbourne. “I learnt last night that some of my cartoons from a few years back have been submitted as an entry in that competition,” Mr Leunig told ABC radio. “The Age is extremely concerned because The Age newspaper was also mentioned on the website (Irancartoons.com),” he said. Ha! The Age earlier ran the same wire item as everyone else, announcing that Leunig had entered the Holocaust contest. Maybe they’ll sue themselves. UPDATE IV. Leunig is a victim of war: Mr Leunig says the email may have come from Australia and he is dismayed by what is a hurtful act. “I’ve been set up horribly, maliciously and to me it denotes what it means to stand up against this conflict and this warlike sort of state the world is in and you know, it’s difficult,” he said. UPDATE V. Incidentally, the line above from The Age—that the submitted Leunig cartoon was fake—is wrong. The cartoon was genuine. UPDATE VI. Leunig is hot on the trail of his hoaxer: The artist said he had “various theories” about who submitted the work but preferred to go no further. However, he said he suspected involvement by the “pro-war lobby ... to discredit me”. Interesting tactic; discrediting someone by submitting their unmodified work. “There’s been a number of columnists who are always inciting people to act against me and I’ve always been really perturbed about that,” he said. “You can shrug it off but it’s a worry when you’re on the receiving end and I don’t bear those people very much good will. “This is part of a long series of grinding, malicious attacks I get in the mail, on email, in columns. I’ve taken an anti-war position, as I did in the Vietnam War and now in the Iraq war. If you take that position you end up on the end of a hell of a lot of malice (and) ill-will. “I’ve found ... pro-war people in this country have been very vicious and peronal in their attacks, dirty tricks and campaigns against individuals. I don’t think the same has happened from the anti-war side.” Australia’s Shakespeare sounds like he needs a hug. Of course, what must really be eating at Leunig is that a Holocaust-mocking contestinstantly accepted his cartoon, and that the global press found such a circumstance so plausible. Posted by Tim B. on 02/13/2006 at 02:47 PM “In other Leunig news, the Euroa Gazette reports he recently drew a large cartoon in opposition to a waste disposal facility planned for Violet Town.” That’s right, let’s not dispose of it, let’s just wallow in it, baby! With respect to the holocaust scribble, it is absolutely unsurprising that this bufoonist should assume his place in the front line of the Moral Equiva-Lancers. Posted by paco on 2006 02 13 at 03:01 PM • permalink Is this guy for real, does he exist? by submitting cartoons to Iran he is admitting that it is ok for the West to publish cartoons of MO. Posted by Torontosteve on 2006 02 13 at 03:18 PM • permalink Leunigtic opposed to a sh*t disposal facility? Sure ‘nuff, as he is himself a universal sh*t distributor. Posted by stats on 2006 02 13 at 03:30 PM • permalink It doesn’t matter how banal your point really is: if you put it into a cartoon it seems like profundity.  Wish I could draw. Posted by rexie on 2006 02 13 at 04:20 PM • permalink Go Michael! Go AWB! Who’s gonna pull their trousers down next? Could this be Oz’s answer to Bareback Mounting? Posted by Henry boy on 2006 02 13 at 04:21 PM • permalink How different the camps would be today, with telecommuting. Posted by rhhardin on 2006 02 13 at 04:25 PM • permalink Rexie, you don’t have to be able to draw—just look at Leunig’s cartoon. Posted by Warmongering Lunatic on 2006 02 13 at 04:26 PM • permalink Is it just me or is Mr Curly the spitting image of Mohammed? Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 13 at 04:32 PM • permalink For the sake of consistency should we be issuing a RWDB Fatwa against the Australian Living Treasure? Posted by Hank Reardon on 2006 02 13 at 04:57 PM • permalink AUSTRALIA could become a Muslim nation within 50 years because “we are aborting ourselves almost out of existence”, a Government backbencher says. I have read … comments by a certain imam from the Lakemba Mosque [who] actually said that Australia is going to be a Muslim nation in 50 years’ time,” said Mrs Vale, MP for the southern Sydney seat of Hughes. “I didn’t believe him at the time. But … look at the birthrates and you look at the fact that we are aborting ourselves almost out of existence by 100,000 abortions every year … You multiply that by 50 years. That’s 5 million potential Australians we won’t have here.” Ok, so Mr Westfield will be ditching Christmas Shopping for Ramadam Sales or how about in 50 years time seeing “the 5 Pillar festivals Shop till you drop sale” throughout all the Westfield shopping centres? Berka Sales could be the new fashion for all the Aussie submissive gals in all bright colours with the 50 percent off sales in March. Salaam wa laykoum: May peace be upon you. This little phrase could be a good phrase to use in 50 years time here in Islamic Australia and not the Chinese Asian after all as Paul Keating thought. Ok The new Islamic Australian Anthem in 50 years I love my Islamic Australian Country, A land of grants and funded plains, Of raggered mountain ranges, so Al Qeye da can train and breed again. I love her far horizons I love her dual passports that are given out so free This invaded country for me. Dorothea Mackellar, ‘My country’, 1908 with modified version. Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 05:28 PM • permalink Leunig has set up an interesting trap for those who will now condemn him, where he can insist it’s all about “freedom of speech”. It isn’t. The fact is, not one Jew or Australian (to my knowledge) burnt down a Fairfax office or threatened to kill Leunig. Posted by Dan Lewis on 2006 02 13 at 05:49 PM • permalink How in the world is the Tehran newspaper Hamshahri (http://weekbyweek7.blogspot.com/2006/02/iranian-newspaper-launches-anti.html#links) which is owned and managed by the Tehrani mayor’s office going to ensuire: 1. that the western media publishes the cartoons; and 2. if they don’t how do they ensure that the Western media will! Also, the Iranaians are being very duplicitious given there is no comparable freedom of speech in Iran. Plus, the Holocaust cartoon competition is clearly targeting Jews. The Danes that first published the offending cartoons were Lutherans! Posted by WeekByWeek on 2006 02 13 at 06:03 PM • permalink He sure puts the ‘loon’ back into Leunig. Posted by ausdiplomad on 2006 02 13 at 06:06 PM • permalink You guys might want to look at the article here at http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/ive-been-set-up-horribly-says-leunig/2006/02/14/1139679542847.html Looks like the cartoon in question along with the text was not sent by Leunig at all but by someone else. The cartoon has been pulled and the Age is taking legal advice. Posted by tssk on 2006 02 13 at 06:24 PM • permalink #14 Leunig is a victim once again, and the world of holocaust-driven hilarity is much the poorer. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 13 at 06:35 PM • permalink “AN Islamic community leader says Liberal backbencher Danna Vale’s comments about Australians aborting themselves out of existence while Muslim families grew are racist.” Actually how can it be racist, it’s about a religion. This needs to be clarified in Australia. Once again, australians should start defining themselves only be religion and then point the finger. Do they call themselves Islamic is that a race or a religion? Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 06:36 PM • permalink So wake up Australia call firstly it’s important to call yourself your religion first, so you can go for the you’re racists card, then you families birth place, even if you have never been there, then Australian if you have to then sexual preference then male or female then your star signs.. Me, I’m a leo. Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 06:39 PM • permalink How low can this person get to in terms of racism?” president of Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Dr Amir Ali said. “This is the most racist comment I have ever seen.” Pigs Arse!! Definition of Racist: a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others Islam is a religion and not a race. Are we living in a cultural marxist state now or what? These men really need to learn our history and education here before defining the English language. Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 06:43 PM • permalink #14—That someone could so easily gin up an offensive cartoon and it could be readily accepted as a Leunigtic original says more about Leunigtic than anything Leuny has produced himself. Posted by the wolf on 2006 02 13 at 06:43 PM • permalink #10 - I would love for someone (from the ABS) to crunch the numbers on that 20.5 million aussies 2006 10 million (the girls) with a fert rate of 1.7 (below replacement) 250,000 (the girls) with a fert rate of 7.1 thanks to PC’s baby bonus it just might be possible. 50years or 100 that is the question? Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2006 02 13 at 06:52 PM • permalink Leunigtic, a loser among losers. He would be a cosmic joke were it not that he pays his country back for the swell life and freedoms it gives him with treachery, dishonor, and shameless mendacity, to say nothing of giving gleeful aid and comfort to a bunch of throat slashers. I wish him that which he fears most and that which he shall surely reap, obscurity of such a nature that the memory of him is blotched out. Posted by stats on 2006 02 13 at 06:52 PM • permalink Even though it was a prank, it has become a huge new story.  So for the sake of public interest the Leunig cartoon comparing Auschwitz to Israel should be shown together with the fake Leunig comments (acknowleging them to by fake).  This might help the public to see why the Iranian newspaper was taken in by the prank.  It would be interesting to see how Leunig responds to that. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 13 at 06:53 PM • permalink #19 It is a Leunig cartoon. That part is correct. The incorrect part is that he claims he didn’t submit it to the competition. He is saddened by this exposure, just as he is saddened by everything else http://humbugonline.blogspot.com/2006/01/secret-of-michael-leunigs-success.html Posted by quillpen on 2006 02 13 at 06:55 PM • permalink It is nice to see Leunig getting exposed for what he is: a hateful little man. Posted by lingus4 on 2006 02 13 at 06:59 PM • permalink Imagine that, his everyday cartoons are anti-semetic enough to slot straight into a anti jew competition run by the theocracy of Iran. And the best he can manage is a deer-in-the-headlights look and claim hes the victim. hes the tragic result or leaving his mind so open everything has fallen out. Posted by thefrollickingmole on 2006 02 13 at 07:02 PM • permalink Leunbat submits entry to holocaust cartoon competition - a fraud???  I guess this comes under “fake but true”... Posted by anthony_r on 2006 02 13 at 07:06 PM • permalink Please show some compassion for Leunig. For so long people have thought that those touched by the holocaust were the true victims, but they have failed to take into account the traumas faced by a middle class Australian who is forced to draw pictures for a living. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 13 at 07:17 PM • permalink I heard Leunig on the news - this was the leading story on the ABC.  Leunig was almost in tears saying something like..this is what happens when you stand up for something or other. It could’ve been sent in by someone supported him that thought the cartoons should be getting more exposure or by someone who wanted to hurt him.  Either way it exposes what an arse he is. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 13 at 07:21 PM • permalink Is this whole thing neat or what? The genuine submissions will prove that in the west we’re quite capable of dealing with offensive material in a civil peaceful manner, contrary to what this competition is trying to prove, AND we get to out the grandiosing scum that exist within our society for what they are. And the organisers come out looking even more stupid for thinking they could pull one over us. Bring on the toons! Posted by HC44 on 2006 02 13 at 07:22 PM • permalink Good prank. Posted by Donnah on 2006 02 13 at 07:25 PM • permalink Take that, Mr Curly, and stick it in your teapot. Posted by slatts on 2006 02 13 at 07:39 PM • permalink It all [Leunig, etc., et al] seems to me to be only the tactic of thought chaos, of which the prize is to somehow come out “on top”. So I must rejoin what Bob Dylan said, “Who gets there first is uncertain.”  It’s the wrong game. Posted by Joe Peden on 2006 02 13 at 07:40 PM • permalink I heard the goose on Trioli’s show this morning. He is not amused. To show he is in not amused he is going to find out who sent the cartoon in his name. When he finds that person he will tell them how unamused he is. See! I love listening to hand wringers get angry. I feel like I’m watching a South Park movie. Posted by gubba on 2006 02 13 at 07:43 PM • permalink Unfortunately, the smh is getting a little confused Fake Leunig Cartoon sparks storm. The cartoon wasn’t fake, dammit! Posted by duncanm on 2006 02 13 at 07:48 PM • permalink Leunig’s just annoyed because someone else beat him to it. Posted by jic on 2006 02 13 at 07:56 PM • permalink He sounded so forlorn and hurt on the radio that someone would seek to promote his work. His lack of empathy for the many he has hurt is astonishing. Posted by captain on 2006 02 13 at 07:59 PM • permalink Leunig must have been advised by John Kerry because Leunig intended to submit the cartoon before he decided not to submit the cartoon. Posted by perfectsense on 2006 02 13 at 08:00 PM • permalink I suddenly understand the meaning of “Fake but accurate” Leunig needs to ask why this “prank” was so credible Posted by the nailgun on 2006 02 13 at 08:05 PM • permalink Michael Gawendas refusal to print leunig’s “Arbeit macht frei"cartoon can be read HERE The original Cartoon can be seen HERE The implication in my mind is It is worse for Jews to wage war to defend themselves fron Anhilation , than to work to death in Nazi Concentration camps. At least the Age pulled it! Posted by davo on 2006 02 13 at 08:07 PM • permalink The good news is that even though it is a fake going on recent precedents this is all the license we need to smash and burn stuff. I’m starting with letting the tyres down on all the bikes in the bike rack outside the Greens offices. And they better re-inflate the tyres with a hand pump or I’m dobbing them into Gaia. Posted by the nailgun on 2006 02 13 at 08:10 PM • permalink 18# Of the all the taqiyya practising islamic community leaders in Oz, surely Dr Amir Ali is one of the most odious. Any chance to vilify Australians is always leaped on by this parasite. You might remember in the aftermath of the terror raids, his only reaction was to demand the govt provide protection for mosques, islamic schools etc from non-existent “gangs of rednecks”, ignoring the fact that the only seriously dangerous gangs in Sydney actually come from the community he purports to represent AND people from this very same community had just been arrested for plotting to mass murder their fellow citizens.  Muslim head seeks PM’s help to stop backlash Posted by Tancred on 2006 02 13 at 08:19 PM • permalink Damm! According to Forbes magazine there is a Brazilian rat claiming to be the first submitting a cartoon to that Iranian rag….forget its’ name….do you care? Thought so. But we must not allow this. Leunig is the worlds’ biggest arsehole so this Brazilian freeloader ought to butt out. Not convinced? Even The Age refused to publish the Leunig cartoons in question. Strewth! Must look for the Trioli transcript re Leunigs hand-wringing appearance. Sounds much better than the Simpsons or South Park. Life really does imitate art. Woohoo!!! Posted by desert rat on 2006 02 13 at 08:23 PM • permalink To draw a crass, Holocaust-mocking cartoon and to have it rejected by an Australian newspaper is one thing; but to draw the cartoon and have it accepted for publication by an Iranian newspaper, oh no, that would be an anathema to the sensitive (albeit tough, noncompromising, iconoclastic, and nonconformist; although still idealistic, humanistic, gentle, and compassionate) soul of Michael Leunig, the ”Australia’s Living National Treasure.” Oh, dear, the amount of moral contortions that sensitive cartoonists must undertake on daily basis is staggering. Posted by tmciolek on 2006 02 13 at 08:24 PM • permalink Funny how the place where the cartoons are posted makes sooooo much difference. For example: The Age = brave, an apt portrayal of the middle east situation An Iranian site devoted to mocking the holocaust = an unfair portrayal of an ‘artiste’s work’ If the duck fits Mike, wear it. Posted by Nic on 2006 02 13 at 08:24 PM • permalink tmciolek, must be ESP, lol. Posted by Nic on 2006 02 13 at 08:25 PM • permalink ``I’ve been set up horribly, maliciously and to me it denotes what it means to stand up against this and you know, it’s difficult,’’ he said. So he’s got the international ear, a glorious opportunity to strike a blow for peace and justice, and he whines about himself? Talk about blowing your 15 minutes. Posted by rhhardin on 2006 02 13 at 08:30 PM • permalink #20- you forget that women have no rights subtract 10 percent and then calculate it a $4000/child..LOL Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 08:30 PM • permalink I wonder if we’ll get a free calender of his cartoons next year? Islamic Law on Female Circumcision.Muslims usually insist that this practice is a cultural issue, and it is not religiously mandated by Islam. So if it’s cultural how can they call Islam name calling as racist if it’s a religion and not a race? Re: aust news today, I’m stumped on this one.. I need to review a dictionary again… I’m off to hoover !! Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 08:36 PM • permalink The Age is seeking legal advice on behalf of Leunig. Now that would be an interesting defamation case. Leunig: “Your Honor, the defendant had my cartoon published and made me look anti-semitic.”  Leunig: *displays cartoon* Judge: “Yeessssssss…...” Posted by HC44 on 2006 02 13 at 08:40 PM • permalink Well, I’m willing to attest to the “truthiness” of the Leunig cartoon.  It certainly seems fake, but accurate… Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 13 at 08:46 PM • permalink Let’s not take this Living National Treasure business too far - also on the list: Phillip Adams Bob Brown Russell Crowe Peter Garrett Germaine Greer Paul Keating Cheryl Kernot Gough Whitlam (and his wife, Margaret) and David Williamson. I am suspicious that perhaps the ABC had a hand in compiling this list (but not too great a hand, as John Howard is also listed). Well worth a look. Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 02 13 at 08:47 PM • permalink You mean there’s a Leunig cartoon Gawenda actually found too tasteless to print? Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 13 at 08:48 PM • permalink Leunbat refutation is ambiguous: “Somebody is acting fraudulently to discredit me and your website and I ask you not to assist them in this misleading and criminal activity ... This (is a) very serious hoax.” Posted by anthony_r on 2006 02 13 at 08:54 PM • permalink Let’s burn down the Leunbat’s house. Then the international press will be forced to highly his insensitivity. Posted by Mike Jericho on 2006 02 13 at 08:58 PM • permalink Leunigate! Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 13 at 09:02 PM • permalink #51 Living treasure list? Are you sure that they are all still alive, I have my doubts on some… Posted by kae on 2006 02 13 at 09:04 PM • permalink #42 The Brazilian’s name is “Latuff”. He has been posting cartoons for years to Nazimedia (Indymedia) and well received there. He is obviously looking for some publicity, without realising it will probably make him even more untouchable in the sane world. Posted by Dan Lewis on 2006 02 13 at 09:08 PM • permalink More like “accurate but fake”! Posted by Jim Treacher on 2006 02 13 at 09:08 PM • permalink Leunig said: “It could be any number of people - there a number of columnists and bloggers who have been particularly hateful of me for quite a long time and have suggested all sorts of hateful and hateful things towards me,” he said. “The mind jumps towards all these kind of people but I must refrain from imagining anyone in particular - it could be a kid.” Wonder who he was thinking of? He is dismayed by what is a hurtful act.  I think whoever it was was being kind but kindess is not always sugar coated. ‘I think Michael Gawenda just didn’t get it. I think the drawing is sympathetic to all Jews who ever suffered but sympathy is not always expressed with sugar.’ Conversation with Media Watch and Michael Leunig Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 13 at 09:17 PM • permalink “The fun is over”, huh? Looks to me like it’s just beginning! Posted by Brian Tiemann on 2006 02 13 at 09:17 PM • permalink Has anybody noticed that the Jew arriving at Auchwitz seems to be doing so voluntarily? Posted by murph on 2006 02 13 at 09:20 PM • permalink Funny how quickly Leunig is squealing when the people he claims to be supporting actually accept and promote his support of them. Another head-tilter exposed as merely a poseur. Couldn’t have happened to a better guy, either. Posted by PW on 2006 02 13 at 09:20 PM • permalink Why can’t we have a Religious Olympics instead of countries? Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 09:24 PM • permalink So let’s be clear about this. Yes, he drew the cartoon. Yes, he actually submitted it for publication. It got published somewhere else. He’s being set up? Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 13 at 09:27 PM • permalink BTW Tim, congrats on Australia’s win over Switzerland yesterday… Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 13 at 09:28 PM • permalink After the “artisitic displays of “piss christ” and the Virgin Mary being defecated on and the holocaust cartoons, A new set of exhibits is on show in Italy. Oriana Fallaci beheaded Will these odious creations be a source of inspiration to Leunig’s anti western art? Should we now begin torching Italian restaurants in Melbourne and Sydney to show our acceptance of Muslim cilture? Posted by davo on 2006 02 13 at 09:31 PM • permalink So in Leunig’s own terms, the publication of Leunig’s own cartoon is a taunt of… Leunig? Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 13 at 09:31 PM • permalink Strange how the newspaper will include the link to IranCartoons.com in this story but not to TimBlair.net when then ran their story on the Danish cartoons published by an Aussie blogger…or maybe, being The Age, not so strange at all. Posted by Villeurbanne on 2006 02 13 at 09:36 PM • permalink Can anyone remember a Bill Leak cartoon that is on message to send to mullahland? Or for that matter any other of our brave cartoonists will do. Margo might know. Posted by gubba on 2006 02 13 at 09:41 PM • permalink #65 Awesome and on clay too! At last, a new generation is emerging. Fitzy must be really proud and all this without Leyton! Davis cup is the way for young talent to find their confidence -no doubt Posted by davo on 2006 02 13 at 09:45 PM • permalink Oh dear, widdle Leunacy baby was hurtie by the bad, bad boogeyman motooners. Oh my, those Jooozs made my looney cry “wah, wah, I nevah hoit nobody with my toons, why do they pick on me, those Joos, huh? What did I evah do to hoit nobody?” It’s OK baby, thurn on your widdle tummy and I’ll give you a massage like you like it. Posted by stats on 2006 02 13 at 09:48 PM • permalink “I learnt last night that some of my cartoons from a few years back have been submitted as an entry in that competition,” Mr Leunig told ABC radio. Loosely translated: Leunig to Iran:  “Shh!  Not so loud!” And did he ever explain how the pro-war factions somehow got hold of his cartoons.  Did they Watergate The Age’s offices? Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 13 at 09:54 PM • permalink I think Mr. Leunig should take his case to the International Court at The Hague. Once the Milosevic trial wraps up in 2019, the judges are going to need something else to do….. Posted by Rob C. on 2006 02 13 at 09:55 PM • permalink As for the point Iran is trying to make, Israel News Agency is going to publish the cartoons - together with educational disclaimers.  Beats burning down embassies. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 13 at 10:21 PM • permalink Ah, right, so Loonig is anti-war.  But he would presumably regard Intifadas 1 and 2, and the ‘insurgency’ in Iraq as wars of resistance and liberation, surely?  So where are all the anti-Intifada, anti-insurgency cartoons?  But I’m forgetting: as he already explained in hisAge piece, we’re meant to infer from his anti-Israeli cartoons that he is also strongly opposed to Palestinian violence.  He shouldn’t have to draw us a picture, so to speak. Posted by cuckoo on 2006 02 13 at 10:27 PM • permalink Reality really sucks, huh, Leunig? Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 02 13 at 10:31 PM • permalink I live in China and get my news online   -  these four sentences on National Nine News ran one after the other   -  “Opposition Leader Kim Beazley says Danna Vale’s comments are symptomatic of the Liberal Party’s growing extremism. Muslim groups have labelled the comments as racist. Mr Beazley said Ms Vale was representative of growing government extremism. “Poor old Dana Vale is an authentic representative of this government’s growing extremism.” Also “Ms Vale later denied telling ABC radio that Muslims were having too many children. “I was verballed this morning by the ABC,” she later told Macquarie Radio. “I would never say such a thing and I did not say it.” My first blog -  inspired by ratio and, of course, Tim. Posted by LaoHuLi on 2006 02 13 at 10:31 PM • permalink Maybe O.J. can help him track down the hoaxer faxer? Posted by andycanuck on 2006 02 13 at 10:36 PM • permalink #51,The Living Tresure list will have more credibility when they add Jeannie Little. Anyway, what’s the National Trust doing deciding who is a living treasure? Aren’t they supposed to be about buildings (as opposed to old crocks)? Posted by mr magoo on 2006 02 13 at 10:50 PM • permalink I’m starting to think that Leunig can’t take a joke… Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 13 at 10:51 PM • permalink I say, Tim’s been mentioned in Crikey again and yet it’s not malicious. What is going on? Posted by Ian Deans on 2006 02 13 at 10:57 PM • permalink Iran’s bluff has been called at the Neo-Con. Posted by JamesP on 2006 02 13 at 11:00 PM • permalink ANOTHER ISLAMIC DICTATE: VALENTINE’S DAY INCORRECT An Islamic separatist women’s group, known for its fierce opposition to Western-style romance, vowed to prevent couples celebrating Valentine’s Day. “We will not allow anyone to observe Valentine’s Day as it does nothing but spread immorality among youth,” said Aasiya Andrabi, firebrand leader of the separatist Dukhtaran-e-Millat or Daughters of Faith. The group, which supports a 16-year-old separatist insurgency against New Delhi’s rule in Indian Kashmir, is also engaged in a crusade to stamp out immorality in the Muslim-majority region. Valentine’s Day, which is celebrated February 14, is “against our culture and Islamic teachings,” Andrabi said in a statement reported by Current News, a local news agency. The anti-Valentine’s Day protest Andrabi’s return to moral policing after her release from jail where she spent four months for harassing a couple. The group kicked off its campaign Friday against “Lover’s Day” in Srinagar, the state’s summer capital, by raiding half a dozen shops, confiscating Valentine’s Day cards and making a bonfire out of them. The aim of Valentine’s Day is to “pave the way for Western culture to invade youths’ hearts and minds and distance them from their traditional culture and Islamic principles,” added Andrabi. The group has previously smeared black paint on film posters portraying semi-naked women. Andrabi, who wears a head-to-toe veil in line with Islamic tradition, has also been running a largely unsuccessful campaign to get women to wear similar attire in Indian Kashmir. Kashmirs largely Muslim population is socially conservative, but over the past few years couples have openly dated in parks, restaurants and Internet cafes. “We want to save our youth from indecency and desire to see them as true followers of Islam. We won’t like them to follow Western culture,” Andrabi said on Saturday. Moderate and hardline factions of the regions main separatist alliance and other Islamic groups rallied around Andabi when she was in jail and urged her release, saying she was doing a good job fighting obscenity and immorality. Aint luvvvvvvvvv grand? Peace!! Posted by ratio on 2006 02 13 at 11:02 PM • permalink “Australia’s Shakespeare sounds like he needs a hug. Of course, what must really be eating at Leunig is that a Holocaust-mocking contest instantly accepted his cartoon, and that the global press found such a circumstance so plausible.” Please tell me Tim Blair didn’t just use the “fake but true” arguement. Posted by Ahriman on 2006 02 13 at 11:04 PM • permalink Slightly o/t - Danna Vale was Right Team A @2001 = 20,500,000 Growth Rate p.a = 1.14% Number in 2056 =  38,375,717 Team M @2001 = 281576 Growth Rate p.a = 8% Number in 2056 = 22,934,609 Percentage Team M in Total Pop’n = 60% Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2006 02 13 at 11:09 PM • permalink tssk - The Age is taking legal advice? What about - going into receivership perhaps??? Posted by Razor on 2006 02 13 at 11:10 PM • permalink Memo to Leunig: Farrah wants her ‘do’ back! Posted by Brian on 2006 02 13 at 11:16 PM • permalink Please tell me Tim Blair didn’t just use the “fake but true” arguement. ahriman No he didn’t. fact: the cartoon is the product of Michael Leunig fact: the cartoon was accepted as an entrant into a “bad taste” competition fact: the cartoon is extraordinarily offensive Posted by murph on 2006 02 13 at 11:22 PM • permalink #85 except, CBL, that birth rates do not stay constant, and that extremely high BR likes that of the muslim population (is it actually 8%, I find that hard to believe) is likely to fall real quick as they get integrated into the main culture, which, I optimistically believe, they eventually will.  In the meantime though….. Posted by entropy on 2006 02 13 at 11:26 PM • permalink This is hilarious. Mike’s calling his own work a fraud now. I wonder if Andy is watching the clock? Posted by powderkeg on 2006 02 13 at 11:30 PM • permalink entropy 1) click on the dfat link = 40% growth in 5 years = 8%pa 2) once it reaches a “tipping point” in 25-30 years when their are very-very few non-M kids in schools I think Team A will stop growting altogether. 3) I hope like heck your right but what will be “the main culture” Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2006 02 13 at 11:32 PM • permalink How thin-skinned he is when he is on the receiving end. Leunig fails dismally to acknowledge his own aggression. He is a typical Latham ‘hater’. But of course for the haters, the crime is only committed when you expose themn for what they are. Posted by captain on 2006 02 13 at 11:32 PM • permalink Leunig request to the Iranian newspaper - from The Age Somebody is acting fraudulently to discredit me and your website Is he really worried about someone discrediting the Iranian newpaper? Leunig said the editors of the Iranian website had been “the first to defuse this”, removing the cartoon immediately and apologising. He said he was pleased the editors were “acting in the interests of truth”. Yes, the newpaper that is preaching holocaust denial is acting in the interest of truth.  Maybe Leunig actually did post to them but didn’t realise his comments would be made public. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 13 at 11:35 PM • permalink The point is that the Iranian pub WOULD HAVE published them as cartoons worthy of HOLOCAUST Denial. They are therefore worthy ofdescription as Holocaust Denial. Posted by davo on 2006 02 13 at 11:41 PM • permalink The only thing better than this would be if Leunig’s cartoon had won the contest.  You just can’t make this stuff up. Posted by RebeccaH on 2006 02 13 at 11:43 PM • permalink Me, I’m a leo. Die, infidel, die. Posted by Achillea on 2006 02 13 at 11:47 PM • permalink Another example of Michael Leunig’s work is his Easter 2005 cartoon “War on terror 2000 years ago (Middle East).” What a precious elegance of thought! What an unaffected humanism! Finally, what a monumental contribution to a harmoniously multi-culti Australia!  I am awed. (the cartoon reference is courtesy of the-neo-con.blogspot.com) Posted by tmciolek on 2006 02 13 at 11:55 PM • permalink Perhaps an artistic person could reverse engineer the disgraceful Leunig Holocaust cartoon and submit it all over again making it clear it was only INSPIRED by Leunig. I think he’d have to be a serious candidate for victory considering all the opium smoking mentally ill toon drawing Mullahs he’d be up against. Any takers? Posted by Andrew Landeryou on 2006 02 13 at 11:57 PM • permalink Infidel;Infidel is an interactive fiction computer game published by Infocom in 1983. It was written by Michael Berlyn and was the first in the “Tales of Adventure” line. Due to Infocom’s virtual Z-Machine, it was ported to a wide variety of popular computing systems of the day, including the Apple II and Commodore 64. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel_(computer_game) Infidel:a person who does not believe in your particular religion, denomination or religious tradition. Similar to “Unbeliever” but more of a “snarl” word. http://www.religioustolerance.org/gl_i.htm This weeks lucky stars: Leo: You may be lucky and find yourself been drawn by a cartoonist. Virgo: Watch out for large crowds Taurus: Stop others bullying you around cancer: you may get drawn like snoopy or mecca mullah: you may find it hard to take a joke Allah: It seems we still havn’t found you so be lucky and show us your lucky nos is 5 Virgo: well go back to bed. Posted by 1.618 on 2006 02 14 at 12:06 AM • permalink I thought there would be a lot of hate and vitriolic name calling here today. I see I was correct. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 12:09 AM • permalink Good idea #98. Leunig has said he was worried that “Somebody is acting fraudulently to discredit me” when it is probably not necessary to take it that far - he has already done most of the work. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 12:12 AM • permalink CBL - #91 The growth rate is 8%, not the birth rate. This figure includes immigration. I doubt that we’ll be drowned out.  However, Dana Vale is correct in highlighting the fact that Australian is doing itself a massive disservice by enabling the murder of 100,000 unborn humans each year. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:13 AM • permalink Leunig even gets a mention in Qatar’s leading English daily. Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 14 at 12:15 AM • permalink Congratulations on your correctness dandrew, you dickwad. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 12:15 AM • permalink #100 dandrew, or do you prefer dandy?  There’s no vitriol here.  A bit of glee, sure, but hate? vitriol? no way… Posted by anthony_r on 2006 02 14 at 12:17 AM • permalink #100 - dandrew Has anything in particular caught your eye?  If so, care to point it out and explain why it is unwarranted? Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:17 AM • permalink No offence dandrew - that was an attempt at humour. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 12:18 AM • permalink #9- that’s one lot of treasures that would be better off buried; have a look through the whole list- except for a dozen or so, the rest would only even make adequate landfil, garbage having a much lower level of noxious gas. Even MacDonalds styrofoam packaging has a shorter half-life than the smug self-importance of these twerps. Who decides these things? The Barking Mad Leftist Division of the Australia Council? Posted by Habib on 2006 02 14 at 12:20 AM • permalink Yes I know Murph and the numbers are correct 281576 * e(to the power of)(1.08*55) =22,934,609 “Ever since Newton invented the Calculus in the 17th century, we have known how to solve this equation for N, the number of people in the population at any given time….The solution is: N=N0 e rt where N0 represents the starting population. model Posted by knuckleheadwatch on 2006 02 14 at 12:21 AM • permalink The London Telegraph has made the point that any destuction or insulting of the Danish flag is an insult to Christianity because it has a cross on it. Posted by Susan Norton on 2006 02 14 at 12:23 AM • permalink murph, The vast majority of comments are insulting remarks about Leunig. There is no attempt at analysis of what he might have meant by his cartoon nor why he may be upset at its use in an obviously anti-semitic campaign. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 12:27 AM • permalink #109 - And my point is that Australia can decide to stem the immigration flow of Muslims and/or increase the immigration flow of non-Muslims.  The 40% increase over five years is because the numbers were low beforehand.  A 40% increase over the next five years would require the migrant cap to be increased simply to accommodate the numbers. Also, it does not indicate that the Muslims are being churned out at a birth rate of 8%. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:32 AM • permalink dandrew Well dandrew.  Why don’t you enlighten us? Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:33 AM • permalink If I didn’t want something used in an anti-semitic campaign I wouldn’t produce something that was anti-semitic. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 12:34 AM • permalink #111 - Leunig has a history of anti-semitism. Read this if you care to. Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 14 at 12:37 AM • permalink You’ve not been paying attention Dandy. —Nora Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 02 14 at 12:40 AM • permalink dandrew It doesn’t take a sophist wank-stain to tell us what Leunig meant.  It’s obvious that he is indifferent to the suffering of Jews in Auschwitz and is contemptuous of Israel’s right to defend itself from the barbarians at its gates.  The fact that the Jew at Auchwitz is drawn such that it appears that he is arriving voluntarily is enough information for me and anybosy else to form an opinion as to what Leunig meant. This is a theme for Leunig, who recently drew a cartoon in which he insinuated that Ariel Sharon’s stroke was karma for the justice handed to Sheik Yasin. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:42 AM • permalink murph, Assume for a moment that Luenig’s cartoon was not anti-semitic but was implying that a constant state of war is not conducive to a happy homeland for the jewish people. If so, it follows that he would not like it used in a campaign by a regime that advocates the destruction of Israel. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 12:42 AM • permalink My assumption moment has come and gone. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 12:46 AM • permalink Yeah right.  10 out of 10 for the mental gymnastics there, dandrew. Slight problem though:  Michael Gawenda saw it for what it was.  The Iranians saw it for it was. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:47 AM • permalink Assume for a moment that Luenig’s cartoon was not anti-semitic but was implying that a constant state of war is not conducive to a happy homeland for the jewish people. So he’s implying that the Jews should just bend over and take it up the backside like they did at Auschwitz, Baba Yar etc etc. Since he’s in the business of preaching, why doesn’t Leunig stand on a street corner in Ramallah and implore the Palestinians to do the same? Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 12:51 AM • permalink O/T What happened to the “Have your say” section on the mediawatch site? Posted by lingus4 on 2006 02 14 at 12:53 AM • permalink dandrew: There is no attempt at analysis of what he might have meant by his cartoon nor why he may be upset at its use in an obviously anti-semitic campaign OK :- His pictures are straight foward - It is obscene for Jews to defend themselves.  He’s upset because the kings of anti-Semitism loved his work so the pretending is over. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 12:53 AM • permalink You are correct Dandrew, a “constant state of war is not conducive to a happy homeland for the Jewish people.”  You want to let all the loons surrounding the place know that. I fail to understand how anyone considers the building of a wall to be an offensive action. Luenig stands condemned by his own pen - the fact his cartoon was accepted, no matter who submitted it says it all.  That the ultimate judges of anti-Semitism accepted his cartoon for their childish competition is prima facie. Posted by Ralph Wiggum on 2006 02 14 at 12:54 AM • permalink Excuse me… is dandy andy REALLY suggesting our appreciation of Leunig’s cartoon is insufficiently nuanced?! Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 14 at 12:57 AM • permalink Murph, Thanks. I like to think my mind is still agile enough for mental gymnastics and has not become sclerotic. Is it not possible he was drawing upon the old maxim of two wrongs not making a right? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 12:59 AM • permalink Two lefts don’t make a right, but three do. —Nora Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 02 14 at 01:04 AM • permalink richard mcenroe I am suggesting your appreciation of the world is insufficiently nuanced. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:04 AM • permalink Richard, I believe so. Dandrew, No.  I think he’s drawing upon the oldest maxim: Jooos should be exterminated. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 01:06 AM • permalink dandrew And I am suggesting that you are intellectually dishonest. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 01:08 AM • permalink dandrew: Is it not possible he was drawing upon the old maxim of two wrongs not making a right? It was wrong for the Nazis to try to exterminate the Jews.  It is wrong for the Islamofacists to try now. What Leunig is objecting to is Jews defending themselves.  Where is the wrong in that? Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 01:09 AM • permalink murph, Intellectually dishonest. Why? Because I’m suggesting a cartoon can be interpreted more that one way? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:14 AM • permalink Is it possible that the hoity toity affectation of presenting all of one’s points in the form of rhetorical questions is so outworn, so arch, so effete, and so pretentious as to instamatically identify their poser as a poseur?  Is it?  I think it is. Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 14 at 01:17 AM • permalink Intellectually dishonest. Why? Because I’m suggesting a cartoon can be interpreted more that one way? Well dandrew, what is the second way, what is the second wrong? Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 01:17 AM • permalink Melanie, “Islamofascists”? See what I meant about name calling. Hardly an attitude that will foster peace. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:21 AM • permalink Stoop, More insults but no debate. By the way, an instamatic is a camera. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:24 AM • permalink melanie said: “It is wrong for the Islamofacists to try to exterminate the Jews.” How gauche of you, Melanie! “It is wrong for persons of the Islamic faith to try to exterminate the Jews”. There, isn’t that much nicer? Posted by Brett_McS on 2006 02 14 at 01:26 AM • permalink dandrew:  “Islamofascists”? See what I meant about name calling. Read Hamas’s charter and tell me the difference between that and the Nazi ideology. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 01:27 AM • permalink Seeing the nuance in cartoons about death camps will foster peace. Won’t it dand-meister? Could it be true? Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 01:29 AM • permalink More insults but no debate. Your fake questions are not fit fodder for any debate, and you are unworthy.  By the way, an instamatic is a camera. Not any more, and not for a long time. Posted by Stoop Davy Dave on 2006 02 14 at 01:30 AM • permalink More “fake but accurate”? Maybe he didn’t, but he could have. Posted by Mystery Meat on 2006 02 14 at 01:31 AM • permalink Luenig with all his poems and angels and soul searching cannot identify his own antisemetism. and he is not alone, he is supported by many “progressives” in that respect and even some jews like Uri Avnery. But we are in a new game now. it is not only the JEWS that have NO RIGHT TO SELF DEFENCE, It is the Whole of the Non Islamic world too, and that includes Luenig himself. I have yet to meet a moderate Muslim who is ashamed for any of the 4000+ terrorist actions commited world wide by his co-religionists since 911. Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 01:37 AM • permalink Melanie - some people misuse religions. That is hardly a reason to slander the the entire religion. It is not better and not more helpful than demonising all jews as global controlling Zionists. Margos - trying to understand other’s points of view can foster peace. Stoop - I am sure some Instamatics still exist. “Instamatically” was never a word as far as I know Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:39 AM • permalink Whats slightly weird is The Age is now running the same story about ‘pro-war hoaxers’ under a different URL http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/ive-been-set-up-horribly-says-leunig/2006/02/14/1139679542847.html and under the byline ‘Craig Dixon’. The author is incredibly skillful at giving the impression that the whole thing is a hoax, the cartoons are fake, and nothing to do with Leunig, without actually telling a direct lie. It’s deceitful journalism though. Posted by olorijn on 2006 02 14 at 01:43 AM • permalink Michael Leunig - a national living bigot treasure. Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 14 at 01:43 AM • permalink dandrew: some people misuse religions. That is hardly a reason to slander the the entire religion. It is not better and not more helpful than demonising all jews as global controlling Zionists. You mean not ALL jews are global controlling Zioninst - only SOME of them.  gee. Anyway I diffentiate when I say Islamists/Islamofacist I mean they mass-murdering type - otherwise I would say Muslim. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 01:45 AM • permalink davo, What separates terrorist attacks from military attacks? The uniforms? The weapons used? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:46 AM • permalink dandrew: What separates terrorist attacks from military attacks? How about the intentional killing of innocent cilvilians.  Simple. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 01:47 AM • permalink Yes I know Murph and the numbers are correct Uh….no they aren’t. You obviously don’t know how to properly model population growth. If you look at the ABS’s actual modelling of population projections you’ll find at the current level of immigration the 2051 population will be 28 million. That’s Total The Muslim increase (which, like entropy, I think is exaggerated on the DFAT page) is coming off an incredibly low base, and as such shows large percentage increases. Similar to that of Vietnamese in the 1970s and 80s. You’ve committed quite a common furphy by taking those isolated figures and extrapolating them like this. You’re also assuming that Muslim women born in Australian over subsequent generations will want to have stacks of kids. Unlikely. Have we been swamped by Catholics, a culture who also used to be notoriously fecund? Nope, after waves and waves of Catholic immigrants from Europe, Asia and elsewhere, the Catholic population is still outnumbered by Protestant faiths. Let’s concentrate on defeating radical Islam before we get into hysterics about “We’re about to be swamped by Muslims!” Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 14 at 01:48 AM • permalink It is not better and not more helpful than demonising all jews as global controlling Zionists. Good God, we’ve got a live one here, folks. Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 14 at 01:49 AM • permalink I sent this letter to the Age: Why does Leuing complain that the cartoon is a malicious hoax and fraud? Didn’t he write it in 2002? Its 100% his work. How then can it be a hoax and a fraud? Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 02 14 at 01:51 AM • permalink Leunig is a more “nuanced” narcissitic personality than “dandrew”: more reaction formation and less projection and denial- but it all amounts to the same low level psychopathy in the end. Posted by nhhhn on 2006 02 14 at 01:52 AM • permalink It is not possible to foster peace with an adversary whose only aim is to destoy you. This was admirably exposed during Adolf Hitler’s “negotiations” with Czechoslovakia. Cultural relativism, the secular religion which sees all cultures as equal only reallt breaks down when it meets a supremacist culture that itself abhors it. No amount of peaceful appeasement will suffice to make such a culture see us a likeable civilised individuals. it will be seen as sign of weakness to be used to make further demands and inroads into our midst. Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 01:52 AM • permalink Melanie, I could have worded that better. Whilst there are Zionists, I do doubt there are any ( except for the odd nutter) that have world domination as a goal. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:52 AM • permalink Melanie, Innocent civilians killed by bombs and missiles are just “collateral damage”. How forgetfulful of me. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 01:55 AM • permalink Margos - trying to understand other’s points of view can foster peace. Dandrew, The problem is that you’re not even wanting to understand Leunig’s sick view on the world. Posted by murph on 2006 02 14 at 01:55 AM • permalink dandrew: Whilst there are Zionists… Probably about 80% of Jews are Zionists - at least in Australia - I think you have some warped idea about what a Zionsit is. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 01:56 AM • permalink Quentin. How can u be sure that the Muslims will be like the Catholics and evolve into similar secular sorts? The Muslims show no sign of changing at least, not for the next 100 years. Everywhere around the world- the Muslim population is increasing dramatically due to better standards of Western medicines, hygine, and healthcare. Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 02 14 at 01:58 AM • permalink collateral damage = intional killing = moral equivalence. Armies that try there best to prevent innocent lives being killed cannot be equated to terrorist who intentionally kill.  Otherwise we may as well all give up now and put on the burkha. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 02:01 AM • permalink dandrew are you suggesting all coalition forces should immitate the Islamists and fight without uniforms? Would they then be legitimised in the blowing up of children’s schools and buses or able to hide amongst women and children whilst they shoot at their enemies and later claiming they were innocent civilians. Not a bad idea Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 02:02 AM • permalink Melanie, I checked my Oxford : Zionism ” movement (orig) for for the re- establishment and (now) development of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel” That had been my understanding. Is that warped? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 02:08 AM • permalink Dandrew - “Some people misuse religions” Yes violently, and the are nearly all muslim clerics and jihadists. That includes Saudi Arabia’s most senior cleric who has been whipping up the mobs and calling for the execution of the Danish cartoonists. Imagine if the Pope called for the execution of the person who created the “Piss Christ” ‘artistic work’.  How the left would howl!  Yet on all left wing blogs and media we are asked to tolerate the intolerable. Senator Nettle would not have the guts to protest muslim restrictions on female freedoms with a t-shirt slog like “Get your Fatwas off my Fanny”, or “Get your Koran off my c—t”.  Not PC at all! The whole muslim religion and it’s spiritual leaders are mentally still in the 14th. century. Being tolerant of their intolerance and constant calls for violence is not helping all those thousands? hundreds? of tolerant non-violent muslims that the left claims are out there reign in the extremists. Personally I think you can count the number of muslims who have called for change to the muslim religion on your fingers and maybe toes as well. Its just not happening.  Wakey wakey sunshine. Posted by Moriarty on 2006 02 14 at 02:10 AM • permalink Melanie Zionism was born out of the realization that there would never be an end to European antisemetism and pogroms.Indeed the technological advances of Europe would only result in more Jews being murdered more efficiently. Some early Zionists had already forseen the coming of the Holocaust. Hardly the case in our wonderful new Country of Australia, where Jews do not have as they travel to various cities “How many Jews were murdered in this town ?”. Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 02:11 AM • permalink davo, No I do not advocate that. Neither do I approve of the terrorist that blew up the King David Hotel in the 1940’s. That the same people later acquired sophisticated weaponry and killed innocent civilians though “collateral damage” does not make the deaths any more palatable. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 02:14 AM • permalink Intellectually dishonest. Why? Because I’m suggesting a cartoon can be interpreted more that one way? No, for ignoring a very likely meaning by being obtuse. As you have been obtuse and equivocating throughout this thread, that’s hardly surprising.  But I’m sure that you wanted to see it plainly stated. Posted by The_Real_JeffS on 2006 02 14 at 02:15 AM • permalink What a gutless parasite eh…  its amazing that he can generate so much indignation when once again it was his OWN work…  from his OWN degenerate mind…. i wouldn’t be surprised if rather than some from the “pro-war lobby”, it was just a mate or ardent supporter of loonies who submitted it to the contest becoz they thought loonie would be to modest to give this tripe the wider audience he know doubts wishes it could have… if he was prepared to draw this manure for his adoring australian audience, and the subject is globally topical, why wouldn’t he want it to recieve global prominence with all his Jew-hating mates???  or was he just afraid that it might have some consequence on his continued employment (your so brave loonie) or that while the underlying message of his and the other rabid mussie “artistes” might be identical, no doubt many would have much more talent (wouldn’t be hard after all) and his doodles would be given the short shrift they deserve??? surely it can’t be that he didn’t want to be associated with the whole concept of a holocaust-contest ???  obviously run and thought up by people with very similar twisted views as this sack of sh*t??? Posted by casanova on 2006 02 14 at 02:22 AM • permalink The_Real_Jeffs Why is it “hardly surprising” ? Are you unsurprised at your own opinion of me? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 02:23 AM • permalink The biter bit Tony Powell Posted by ajwp on 2006 02 14 at 02:23 AM • permalink Everywhere around the world- the Muslim population is increasing dramatically due to better standards of Western medicines, hygine, and healthcare. Yes, but not for long. Birthrates are declining all through the Middle East. Iran is already below replacement rate and expected to decline further. It’s why it’s president is playing his hand now - it’s his last chance. His country is aging faster than the US. Despite what you think, Muslim women don’t want to have thirteen children any more than European women do. The population increase is a residual from the 1970s. Countries in the Middle East are about to get a big, demographic shock. Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 14 at 02:30 AM • permalink ....Europe is too, but at least they’re expecting theirs. Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 14 at 02:31 AM • permalink dandrew - the french people living on the Normandy coast had the living bejeezus shot out of them in June 1944 - and they were generally pretty happy with the situation, not discounting the fact that non-combatants were killed.  The same applies for the liberation of both Iraq and Afghanistan. There is a huge difference between unavoidable civilian deaths caused by the military and civilians deliberately targeted by terrorists. I suppose you don’t think anyone should return fire if fired upon by the enemy in case they kill an innocent. Posted by Razor on 2006 02 14 at 02:36 AM • permalink nailgun -letting down the Green’s bicycle tyres is despicable and so -colourist and delectable…. Posted by crash on 2006 02 14 at 02:36 AM • permalink Razor, France was occupied by a foreign power that sought world domination. Afghanistan and Iraq were not. (Is that statement too obtuse or equivocal Jeffs) Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 02:42 AM • permalink PS to Razor, I don’t think Laos or Cambodia cheered at being liberated by the carpet bombing. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 02:45 AM • permalink Is that how far you have to go back ? to 1946 and the king david hotel ? a hotel that was the headquarters of the British forces command, not a holiday playground like the hotels of Sharm el Sheik when the British were warned on the phone, they chose to ignore it because the voice on the other end was from a pesky Jew. For decades the British denied they had been warned. In 1979, however, a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived. Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 02:47 AM • permalink   By the way, an instamatic is a camera. Jeff — proof that it’s still 1972 in Dandyworld.  See also clueless “Laos or Cambodia” reference. Posted by richard mcenroe on 2006 02 14 at 02:50 AM • permalink davo, It was not an isolated act of terrorism. Does the fact that it was 60 years ago change the nature of the attack. If Palestinians had tanks and jet fighters, would that make their attacks more acceptable? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 02:59 AM • permalink Quentin Despite what you think, Muslim women don’t want to have thirteen children any more than European women do. Did I say that? No, but the fact remains that women rights in the Muslim World esp the Middle East are the lowest in the world. They have no choice in the matter. Precious little access to birth control. But the Left don’t give a rats arse about Muslim women rights do they? Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 02 14 at 03:04 AM • permalink No arguments there, and the left’s attitude to Islamic oppression of women is mostly shameful. But the women are smarter than you think - look at the low birth rate in the Islamic Republic of Iran…. ...those Mullahs are being outsmarted by some women. I like the sound of that. Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 14 at 03:06 AM • permalink richard mcenroe, Ok, an instamatic WAS a camera. When was instamatically ever a word? Laos and Cambodia are far more pertinent than Normandy in 1944. I was responding to the statement that armies take care to not hurt innocent civilians. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 03:09 AM • permalink Quentin:But the women are smarter than you think - look at the low birth rate in the Islamic Republic of Iran…. You mean Iran, the same nation that lied about their nuclear research program? Hmmm… let me think about that one. Posted by Wylie Wilde on 2006 02 14 at 03:15 AM • permalink dandrew: You never answered why it was wrong of Israel to defend itself. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 03:19 AM • permalink What separates terrorist attacks from military attacks? The uniforms? The weapons used? That’s such a disingenuous question Dandy. How about: The auspices of a national authority to declare war BTW Have you heard of Occam’s Razor? —Nora Posted by The Thin Man Returns on 2006 02 14 at 03:20 AM • permalink You mean Iran, the same nation that lied about their nuclear research program? Hmmm… let me think about that one. If they were lying, it would be the other way around, don’t you think? Fine, I guess nothing will dissuade you. Posted by Quentin George on 2006 02 14 at 03:21 AM • permalink Leunig: “There’s been a number of columnists who are always inciting people to act against me and I’ve always been really perturbed about that,” he said. “You can shrug it off but it’s a worry when you’re on the receiving end and I don’t bear those people very much good will. “This is part of a long series of grinding, malicious attacks I get in the mail, on email, in columns. I’ve taken an anti-war position, as I did in the Vietnam War and now in the Iraq war. If you take that position you end up on the end of a hell of a lot of malice (and) ill-will. “I’ve found ... pro-war people in this country have been very vicious and peronal in their attacks, dirty tricks and campaigns against individuals. I don’t think the same has happened from the anti-war side.”  Leunig loves to pose as an underdog. Since when do underdogs have sustained (usually daily) access to big slabs of editorial space in a major morning newspaper (circ. 200,000 or whatever and falling)?. Nor do underdogs have the entire MSM falling over themselves to publish and re-publish his views. Rather than underdog, Leunig is a top-dog who likes to whine. Posted by percypup on 2006 02 14 at 03:22 AM • permalink Thin Man, International law still requires legitimate reasons for even a “national authority” to declare war. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 03:33 AM • permalink Just saw Leunig on television where he said he would dare to say and mention things that no one else would dare say or mention. In the same breath, he also said he would not draw Mohammed. Well done Leunig—keep up with the fair game carictures of Auschwitz. After all, you can sleep safe and sound, knowing well that a bunch of old holocaust survivors, would not come and burn down your house or better an Australian embassy somewhere overseas. Now thats just daring. Posted by Kidon on 2006 02 14 at 04:11 AM • permalink Oh joy joy joy joy. Fact is this lunatic left idiot drew it and now has to wear it. Oh joy. Posted by gms5 on 2006 02 14 at 04:15 AM • permalink Dandrew - and the US had them for Iraq, including ample justification under the UN charter.  Did you complain when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia without any?  Or China invaded Vietnam and India? or Iraq invaded Iran. Or when Indonesia invaded East Timor with Gough Whitlam’s blessing? We need to set up a Hall of Fame for spurious moral equivalency.  Dandrew definitly gets a nomination. Leftists are inventive at moral equivalency - probably because they are defending such a weak position. Posted by Moriarty on 2006 02 14 at 04:17 AM • permalink Kidon, well said. Posted by Nic on 2006 02 14 at 04:19 AM • permalink #186 - You still here? lol! You’ve gone from defending the spineless rabid anti-semite ‘Leunig’ in his quest to discredit Israel, to defending the rights of ‘Paleostinians’ in their quest to destroy Israel. Well done!! Posted by Lucky Nutsacks on 2006 02 14 at 04:19 AM • permalink loonies a fool and a coward….  dandy, its a pity your wasting so much effort trying to defend this ass… and that u seem impervious to the common sense thats being directed at u…. Posted by casanova on 2006 02 14 at 04:25 AM • permalink I note that the media, who were too gutless and hypocritical to publish the Danish cartoon, have leapt at the opportunity to publish Looniks hatework. Posted by Paul on 2006 02 14 at 04:32 AM • permalink Theres probably a positive and negative side to that Paul…  at least it may give many more “normal” people out there an idea of what this sh*t and his employer are really like… as many people who live in other states than he and his paper have little awareness or exposure to him… Posted by casanova on 2006 02 14 at 04:44 AM • permalink Moriaty What ample justification did the coalition have to invade Iraq?  The non-existent WMD’s? The trumped up story about buying uranium.  Or was Rumsfeld wanting his gifts back from Hussein. I don’t think the UN Charter has a clause about “but he tried to kill my daddy”. The relevancy of the other wars you mention does escape me. The only one that comes close to moral legitimacy is Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia because it helped to end the mass murder that was occurring. Whitlam’s government turned a blind eye to a right wing dictatorship invading a little country run by extreme leftists. Do I approve? No. Does it advance any argument you might have? No Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 04:49 AM • permalink casanova, I am quite pervious to common sense. I have yet to hear any here. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 05:02 AM • permalink Michael Leunig “The Humourless Humourist” - Hung by His Own Petard   [RIP] Posted by Wand on 2006 02 14 at 05:12 AM • permalink What ample justification did the coalition have to invade Iraq? One of the cease-fire conditions of the ‘91 war was that Saddam would allow weapons inspections. He kicked out the inspectors. According to international law, the state of war resumes. I don’t think the UN Charter has a clause about “but he tried to kill my daddy”. Would that be an example of your nuanced worldview? The relevancy of the other wars you mention does escape me. The only one that comes close to moral legitimacy is Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia because it helped to end the mass murder that was occurring. Uh-huh. So there was no mass murder in Iraq? Those mass graves don’t count? What’s the cut-off point for mass murder? Is it a raw number, or does it go by percentage of population? And that’s not a rhetorical question - I really want to know what metric you use. And BTW, “Islamofascist” refers to extremist Muslims, primarily Wahhabists, who advocate violent conflict with the goal of worldwide supremacy of Islam over all other religions, nations and peoples. It is no more derogatory to ordinary Muslims than “Nazi” is to Germans, or “Commie” is to Russians. If you take it to mean anything else, you are wrong, and it is your problem. Posted by Dave S. on 2006 02 14 at 05:25 AM • permalink I am quite pervious to common sense. I have yet to hear any here. If you’re young, you’ll be embarassed about the things you’ve written here in about ten or twenty years. If you’re over forty, your dangerous naivete, smug condescension and faux sophistication are unseemly. Posted by Dave S. on 2006 02 14 at 05:29 AM • permalink Mr. Funnies doesn’t think his cartoons are funny anymore. The raving anti-semite doesn’t like his own cartoons any longer? He thinks they are a fraud? This is hilarious. This has given me an idea. Anything he pens that can be construed as anti-American, Anti- Australia or Anti- semitic should be sent to that Iranian paper. Not under another name, of course but under a persons real name. That way there is no argument about fraud etc. Posted by powderkeg on 2006 02 14 at 05:29 AM • permalink Dear Dandrew Since you really don’t seem to understand why this cartoon is offensive, I hope this explanation will clear up some issues. Whether you are Jewish or not the holocaust was an event that comes pretty close to defining evil. The people who committed it were therefore, at that time,  the embodiment of evil. To then portray the victims of this event as the perpetrators of something morally equivalent is repugnant. This is because Israel is not currently attempting putting Arabs in death camps or anything even remotely like it. To imply they are comparable is like denying the holocaust, and comparing the morality of Israelis to Nazis. The logic of it is even further mangled by the fact that it ignores any practical or moral consideration of Palestinian suicide bombings. Apparently only Israel is bad - hang on, what happened to the nuance? The Israelis have, however, learnt the hard way to defend themselves. Foreigners who think Israelis should open their borders to suicide bombers display a special kind of irrational callousness. To put it in terms that a lefty might understand - it’s like a victim of rape being accused of being a rapist when they clearly are not. The fact that you cannot intuitively understand that this cartoon is wrong is beyond my limited capabilities of nuance. There is no nuance that can make me think that your position or Leunig’s is anything but bizarre and repulsive. As to the tone of responses in this forum, you need to understand that you will not always be treated with any respect because many people with a reasonably balanced understanding of right and wrong think that you are fucked in the head. Posted by Margos Maid on 2006 02 14 at 05:37 AM • permalink if Loonig’s doodle doesn’t strike the antisemitic note the Iranian’s were calling for, if his cartoons bear the humanistic message he claims, why isn’t he willing for the Iranian newspaper to print it?  The dogs bark when there’s something to bark about. Posted by hooligan on 2006 02 14 at 05:42 AM • permalink Dave S, Are you seriously suggesting Iraq was invaded because Bush, Blair and Howard were concerned about Hussein killing his own people? Was Afghanistan invaded to catch Osama or to bring democracy to those enslaved by the Taliban? ( Let’s conveniently forget who originally armed the Taliban, just as we forget the other atrocity that occurred on 11 September.) Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 05:45 AM • permalink powderkeg They should be sent incognito and then wait for Leunig to sue for misappropration of intellectual property! I just saw him on the ABC with an Age editor- they are closing ranks around him but do not seem to realise that the acceptance of the cartoons by the Iranian Holocaust denial commitee os far more important then who sent them to them. I really do not think Leunig is blessed with a high IQ . He seems not too bright to say the least and incapable of analysis of his leftism even at the age of 60. Who said If you’re not a leftist at twenty , you have no heart and if you are still a leftist at 40 you have no brain. Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 05:52 AM • permalink 186. what’s “international law” exactly? 196. “never trust a hippie”- there’s some common sense for you, so stop your “pervious” whinging Posted by nhhhn on 2006 02 14 at 05:58 AM • permalink Margos, My opening comment was that I thought there would be hate and vitriolic name calling here today. Calling me “fucked in the head” does not really disabuse me of my original notion. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 06:05 AM • permalink Are you seriously suggesting Iraq was invaded because Bush, Blair and Howard were concerned about Hussein killing his own people? Why? were you, dandrew? Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 06:11 AM • permalink dandrew.. You are backing a loser if you think this is a forum for balanced debate. It is a rightist hate fest populated by people who think that Andrew Dolt is a true intellect, turd blossom is a genius, dubya is almost the reincarnated one and any body who posts anything in any way critical of the Zionist actions in Palestine is actually just about to dust off the plans for Auschwitz. Point out the many inaccuracies and internal inconsistencies scattered through out their postings and you will be ignored. The more utterly garbled pseudo philosophical clap trap you find in a reply, the more certain you can be that you have hit a nerve and will never get an answer.  However, I firmly believe that if you post enough times, one or two people may be forced, probably in the early hours when the hate centres of the brain are least active, to maybe perhaps consider that there might be some virtue in your point of view. If you put an irrefutable point, you will be called all manner of imaginative names. If you are a hate monger, however, who uses the actions of a mad and criminal minority as an excuse to justify your rabid, sad yet possibly dangerous hatred of an entire religion,you will be treated like some later day hero of the keyboard. Curious behaviour, considering the conditions of use of this so called forum.. Oh, and look out for the adminNAzi.. He/She likes to post rather than administrate Posted by therzal on 2006 02 14 at 06:36 AM • permalink therzal: However, I firmly believe that if you post enough times, one or two people may be forced, probably in the early hours when the hate centres of the brain are least active, to maybe perhaps consider that there might be some virtue in your point of view Many of us used to think like you when we were young and naive.  One day you’ll understand - we hope. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 06:43 AM • permalink who the hell is Andrew Dolt ? Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 06:49 AM • permalink Oh leave the leftie alone.  They’re still recovering from their great hope of wiping out the evil west - mother Russia - collapsing before it got going.  Now they’re pinning their hopes on the Islamofascists. On top of that Howard just keeps on getting elected, their feral with desperation Posted by spyder on 2006 02 14 at 06:53 AM • permalink Oooh! You are all awful - but I like you. Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 14 at 06:53 AM • permalink therzal, I can’t disagree, but it it interesting to watch them prove that my initial comment was correct. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 06:53 AM • permalink Dandrew - you are probably going to congratulate yourself on fending off countless charges from the denizens here, and illuminating their dark hours. I am simply driven to the conclusion that threads which are monopolised by people like you, doing what you might think are amazing feats of argument, ramming home the moral equivalencies and the logical non sequiturs to these cretans, are a complete waste of time. Try to be more succinct, there’s a good person. No points for multiple comments and thread hijacking. Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 14 at 07:02 AM • permalink #210 do you mean Andrew Bolt - the Herald Sun journalist? Posted by spyder on 2006 02 14 at 07:04 AM • permalink Melanie, What troubles me is that so many here have ceased to think.  Such as the immediate assumption by some that I am a “lefty”. What is worse is the implied assumption by some that I am somehow against jews or Israel. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 07:05 AM • permalink # 195 And of course you will be able to show us where you [roteseted against Clinton’s bombing of Belgrade ...? Posted by Susan Norton on 2006 02 14 at 07:06 AM • permalink Dandrew, dear little one, you are either trolling, or you are astoundingly ignorant, and proud to show yourself off as a complete ignoramus. Dandrew No. 147 What separates terrorist attacks from military attacks? The uniforms? The weapons used? See the Hague Conventions, the present Laws of Armed Conflict, and the Geneva Conventions. All of these are legal entities to which civilised governments adhere, in order to minimise the impact of armed conflict on civilian populations. Terrorist attacks are indiscriminate attacks aimed not at military or government, but against innocent, unarmed civilians. This is in direct opposition to the LOAC and the above agreements, treaties and standards. They are done to enable a sense of terror in a general population. They are carried out by non-state entities, by personnel who DO NOT: 1. Bear arms openly 2. Bear some insignia, distinguishing mark or uniform to delineate their status as combatants. 3. Bear a relationship to a formal chain of command be it to a national government, authority in rebellion against a government, or tribal group. Such personnel fall outside the Laws of Armed Conflict. They are therefore bandits, terrorists, or francs-tirieurs. When captured, these unauthorised combatants are supposed to be shot out of hand, as per legal and accepted international precedent established in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. Gitmo is not acceptable under teh Conventions - those held prisoner there should have been interrogated, and then shot out of hand. Military attacks are carried out by persons who adhere to LOAC and the above treaties etc. They DO NOT target certain activities, places (hospitals, religious sites, sites of cultural significance) unless the LOAC lawyers in the targetting team has PROOF that the enemy has abrogated the protected status of such structures by using them for military purposes. We take tremendous care with DMPI manegement in targetting. We deliberately accept higher levels of risk to our people in order to stay within LOAC, and to protect civilians - the SAME civilians the terrorists target deliberately. What ample justification did the coalition have to invade Iraq?  17 UN Resolutions that the Saddamite government had not followed. ANY ONE OF WHICH was casus belli to reactivate the 1991 War - which was in a state of armistice, not settled by treaty. The war of 1991 was NOT over, merely in abeyance for a period. There was a mere battlefield pause in place. The non-existent WMD’s? Hmm, you are then unaware that some hundreds of examples of chemical weapons have been located? You knew PRIOR TO THE REACTIVATION OF CONFLICT that this was ‘false’? Well DONE!! Of course, the Chinese, French, Russian, German intel services and governments etc all agreed that these weapons existed too. So did the US Clinton Administration. Thus far, they have not been proven correct - and that is ALL that can be said based on available facts, (they have NOT been proven wrong) rather than your utterly ignorant fever-dreams. The trumped up story about buying uranium. MY dear, dear child, obviously, you have not heard that this was, (how to put this??) actually TRUE? You still spout this tosh? Still believe it? How hilarious! Or was Rumsfeld wanting his gifts back from Hussein. YOur point is infantile, here. Why an I nmot surprised, child? I don’t think the UN Charter has a clause about “but he tried to kill my daddy”. My dear child, it does about attempted assassination of people, especially former heads of state, that, you see, is an ACT OF WAR. You have displayed an astoundingly profound lack of even the most basic knowledge here. ALL of the factual data I have touched on above is available in open sources. Why not try to check your grossly ignorant opinions against one or two facts, once in a blue moon? Who knows, o little one? You might discover that you can be more than just a rather pathetic echo chamber for the most ill-informed and biased elements of the insane left! Now toddle off, it is time babies were in bed. MarkL Canberra Posted by MarkL on 2006 02 14 at 07:09 AM • permalink #197. Sorry to quibble, but it is Hoist by his own petard. Posted by Brett_McS on 2006 02 14 at 07:09 AM • permalink A bit of bedtime reading to enlighten your dark hours. Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 14 at 07:14 AM • permalink blogstrap, How have I monopolised or hijacked? I made an initial comment and since then have responded to replies.I realise that I have not answered all the questions put to me. I apologise for that, but it is a little difficult to answer everyone in a large group who disagree with me. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 07:16 AM • permalink Of course the cartoon is antisemitic. It manages to both diminish the horror of the holocaust and attach the crimes of the nazis to the victims. There is nothing even original about this. Both have been standard strategies of antisemites for decades. Thr first frame even features that age old standby of antisemitism - the “wandering Jew”. The rootless alien outsider doomed to move on for all of eternity - the accursed of God. Here he is, alone, complete with swag over his shoulder contemplating the gates of Auschwitz. About to enter on his own volition. Lured by the sign? Never mind that Jews lived in settled communities with a stable culture at least as long as other Europeans. Never mind that they were as intrinsic a part of European civilisation as any other people. This is obscene. Then the cartoon gets worse. Posted by geoff on 2006 02 14 at 07:21 AM • permalink Well I’ve come to this thread late so a bit of an overview might be in order. Dandrew, you first posted at comment 100. There have been around 120 comments since. Only in 6 or 7 of those could i see something you could interpret as an insult and not all of them involved vitriolic name calling. You would have to be very thin-skinned to be concerned by more than 2 or 3 at most. What would you expect in a forum involving dozens of different commenters. I saw/heard a lot worse at uni debates and I’ve seen a hell of a lot worse on other blogs of both right and left persuasion. As for no real analysis or debate i’ve seen numerous comments providing facts or at least reasonable debating points in reply to your views. Sufficiently that you have felt the need to multi-comment to reply to them. As for ignoring salient points as Therzal asserts, the same accusation could be made at you of not replying to some points - although I appreciate that it’s hard keep up with all comments when you are arguing against several people. So when all is said and done it’s a bit much for you and your late-coming mate Therzal to tut-tut over the low quality of comment and hateful traits of commenters. Keep making points politely and keep snideness to a minimum and the vast majority of commenters will return the favour. Posted by Francis H on 2006 02 14 at 07:29 AM • permalink Markl, This ignorant child might be more open to listen to your arguments if you were less patronising and insulting. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 07:30 AM • permalink If you aren’t nice to dandy he will hold his breath until he turns blue. Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 14 at 07:37 AM • permalink General Point.. Michael Leunig has a right to draw what he likes and say what he likes. (Just as many of the people in this forum do.) Nobody has the right to incite violence against others. Michael Leunig does not incite violence against others. His cartoons show that quite clearly. His overriding theme is peace and beauty and love. He rightly loathes those who promote and glorify violence, oppression and war, who do not hesitate to hurt others, usually the weak and defenceless. Very few people would disagree that THE major issue in Middle East politics these days is (has been for 60 years) the Ethnic Cleansing and Bantustanisation of Palestine by the Zionist politicians and their army. Therefore as a commentator, this is one of the many subjects he comments on.   His message however, is not welcomed by a small number of people here in Melbourne and/or Australia who for one reason and another identify with the Zionists in Palestine. It upsets them if any body should have the temerity to question the Zionist party propaganda. Michael Leunig does it so quietly and well that it drives them into a froth. So much so that many of their posts could be seen as an incitement to violence against him. Isn’t that a curious paradox? The Cartoon.. The cartoon re Auschwitz has been taken out of all context. There are a great many Jews (of all persuasions) who questioned the philosophies of the Zionists from day 1 to today. Read your histories.. Need references?? There are a good many Jews who are aghast at the actions of the Zionists today. Need references?? In the 1st cartoon, the Jew arrives (sans train and track.. it is minimalistic after all..) to be greeted by the propoganda slogan “Work…” at the gates of the place that is death for many.. In the 2nd, another Jew (descendant of a survivor??) is viewing the propoganda slogan “War…” at the gates of the place that is death for many more.. The relationship between the two situations is clear and the comment quite profound and sympathetic to all. The Cartoon Hoax.. It is the Author of a work who usually holds the copyright. Nobody else had the right to do anything with this cartoon. It was plainly an attempt to portray Michael Leunig as siding with radical elements in this ongoing stupidity. (Lets not forget the nature of the paper and people involved in starting all this though..) None of the rabid haters on this forum have commented that in fact he DIDN’T submit this cartoon for the proposed “holocaust cartoon contest”, when in fact it would easily qualify and probably win.. Neither has anybody commented on what a nasty little plot it was to try and stir up trouble in this way… Or had the kahunas to own up.. Come on, who did it?? Posted by therzal on 2006 02 14 at 07:41 AM • permalink Therzal - He/She likes to post rather than administrate? Can’t see why you are here at all, either. Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 14 at 07:42 AM • permalink He submitted it by drawing it. The equivalence is not obscure. Posted by blogstrop on 2006 02 14 at 07:45 AM • permalink Francis H, The vitriol I initially spoke of was directed to Leunig. Since then I have been called many names. I have not responded in kind because I am not thin skinned and I try to avoid being rude. therzal is not my “mate”. I have no idea who he is. Are we both condemned because he did not take exception to my views? Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 07:49 AM • permalink Therzal, you miss the point. It is clear that Luenig didn’t sanction the entry of his cartton into the contest. I couldn’t give a rat’s arse about that nuance. The point that the perp wanted to make was that Luenig’s views, as expressed in the cartoon, are identical to the views of the contest organisers.  The proof of concept is that the Iranians put it on the front page! And what do you think luenig is most upset about, that his cartoon has found its way to Iran without his permission, or that, in a spectacular fashion,  he has been globally exposed as a fellow traveller of deranged jew haters? Posted by entropy on 2006 02 14 at 07:58 AM • permalink dandrew: The vitriol I initially spoke of was directed to Leunig My father was in Auschwitz he was 15.  His whole extended family arrived in Birkenau in cattle carriages and most were sent straight for gassing on arrival including his 10 year old sister.  Do you understand how offensive Leunig is? Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 08:05 AM • permalink Whoever sent of Leunigs cartoons - if they didn’t do it, it could have been me.  The thought crossed my mind alot.  He is such a foul hypocrite. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 08:07 AM • permalink Geoff how observant of you to detect the “wandering Jew” Christian libel of the figure approaching the “Arbeit Macht Frei” gates. Perhaps this even infers the Auschwitz is now his home after 2000 years of wandering? I wonder if he even translated the German to avoid the connection between Germany and Auschwitz- do not forget that leunig is of German Ancestery (Leini or Leinig from hannover). Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 08:12 AM • permalink Very few people would disagree that THE major issue in Middle East politics these days is (has been for 60 years) the Ethnic Cleansing and Bantustanisation of Palestine by the Zionist politicians and their army. That’s plain rubbish. Most people simply don’t give shit, or just think the whole area is a cesspool that should be nuked. Out of those in a position to offer an educated opinion most probably still wouldn’t agree with you. After reading that I was reluctant to bother with the rest. Posted by HC44 on 2006 02 14 at 08:17 AM • permalink Cheers to whoever did this. Hopefully you were smart enough to cover your tracks. I think that’s what they invented wireless hotspots and webmail for. Posted by drscroogemcduck on 2006 02 14 at 08:18 AM • permalink I imagine that the brave person who did this will be sued by the Age and I hope have to pay ONE dollar in compensation for the damage he has done to leunigs reputation! Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 08:22 AM • permalink Jef @ humbugonline has delved into Leunig’s psyche with another cartoon of Leunig. Posted by Humblogger (the Younger) on 2006 02 14 at 08:23 AM • permalink Couldn’t have happened to a nicer arsehole. Posted by pick-your-pun on 2006 02 14 at 08:35 AM • permalink entropy, I do not think therzal did miss the point. He/she articulated some of my views afr more eloquently than I have managed to do. I can understand why some would find the “Auschwitz” cartoon distasteful or worse.  I do not see it that way. I am fortunate to have had no family exterminated in the Holocaust. I have not been to Auschwitz but I have been to Dachau. I knew the history. I had seen the photos. Even so, walking through the place I found I was talking to myself. Over and over I was telling myself “It is OK David, you can leave when you want.” Just before I did leave, I looked a long time upon the monument that was inscribed with “Never again.” If we do not rid ourselves of hatred and tribal pettiness then it will happen again,  and again and again. Posted by dandrew on 2006 02 14 at 08:36 AM • permalink This ignorant child might be more open to listen to your arguments if you were less patronising and insulting. Pot. Kettle. BANG! Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 14 at 08:43 AM • permalink sounds reasonable dandrew, but I still think that Leunig has been most clearly exposed for what he is by this prank. Posted by entropy on 2006 02 14 at 08:43 AM • permalink If we do not rid ourselves of hatred and tribal pettiness then it will happen again, and again and again. Tell this to the people declaring their intention to exterminate entire nations. Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 14 at 08:45 AM • permalink 218.. Where to begin, where to begin… So much to refute, where do I begin.. 1)Whatever a terrorist is, the name is usually used by the GOODGUYS when the BADGUYS (see Ayrab Towelheads) fight back. And the GOODGUYS don’t like it.. It is beyond dispute that in the invasion of Iraq, we (GOODGUYS) have soundly trashed, burned, bombed, maimed, minced, shredded, vapourised, dismembered, shot, napalmed, machinegunned, DU’d, bulldozed, Phosphorused, a great many more of them ignorant ungrateful BADGUYS than they have got of us.. Cos we have all the latest and greatest God Fearing weapons.. Perhaps if you asked them nice like, they’d put on clean uniforms, whilst they invoke their right to resist an invasion of their sovereign state?? Moron. 2)Now what did that Downing Street memo say? “..The intelligence was being fixed..?? “ a)There were no WMDs after mid 1990s (Hans Blix, But what does he know? With a name like that…) b)There were no Mobile Bio Labs (Mobile Ballon Gas Plants maybe..) c)Unmanned aerial (weed spraying) weapons?? Yep, some of them too. c)There was no Niger YellowCake or letter (genuine). Senator Wilson investigated in person and blew the lies..That is why his wife, Valerie Plame was outed by Cheney/Rove/Libby. A FEDERAL offence… d) There were not Gas Centrifuge tubes (but there were tubes to reverse engineer standard Russian unguided shortrange rockets) 3)So “He tried to kill my Paw??” is now one of dubyas “Offishall” reasons for killing oh, over 100000 ayrabs and 2200(?) plus US troops then?? Since when?? It is quite clear that you don’t know what you are talking about. Possibly you are one of those people we hear about who work in the Ministry of Truth up there in Canberra. 228.. Your logic IS submitted.. and VERY obscure.. 230.. That is how YOU see the cartoon because you can not even begin to accept that perhaps he is horrified by the killings on both sides. However, one side is SO much more efficient at doing it.. And does so whilst continuing to claim a unique victim status for itself. I doubt very much that Michael Leunig is a Deranged Jew Hater, any more than I or anybody else who disagrees with you is.. You reeally should look at some of the material from people like Chomsky, Finkelstein, Morris, Brenner, etc etc Are these all Self Hating Jews?? Oiy, so MANY of them already.. Very simple question.. Not a trick.. Do you believe that the IDF mistreats the Palestinians? 231.. Sad, Yes, 60+ years ago.. Do you understand how offensive the Zionist IDF is to a Palestinian NOW?? And they continue to mistreat them and hide behind the very experience you present here.. Is that RIGHT??? MORAL??? 234.. Then you will remain ignorant.. Posted by therzal on 2006 02 14 at 08:46 AM • permalink dandrew or David as you call yourself: If we do not rid ourselves of hatred and tribal pettiness then it will happen again, and again and again. And when Israelis are surrounded by people that want to exterminate them, are they suppposed to say ‘this is tribal pettiness just do what you have to do’ ?? Israel is not tribal.  It is a country that has contributed an enourmous amount to the world in science, medicine, technology and agriculture.  Israel is not going to stop defending itself from a death cult. It is all lovely to speak of peace and love but when one side is insane you have to defend yourself. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 08:46 AM • permalink therzal, I’m just skipping over your posts you are too vile to even bother with. Posted by Melanie on 2006 02 14 at 08:48 AM • permalink #226 “None of the rabid haters on this forum have commented that in fact he DIDN’T submit this cartoon for the proposed “holocaust cartoon contest”, when in fact it would easily qualify and probably win..” Give that it is an avowedly anti-semitic cartoon competition, therzal, there’s every chance you are right. Posted by robf on 2006 02 14 at 08:58 AM • permalink #243 and 234 ...“the ethnic cleansing of Palestine” would include those Palestinians living and working in Israel, or not? Posted by Brett_McS on 2006 02 14 at 08:59 AM • permalink There was no Niger YellowCake or letter (genuine). Senator Wilson investigated in person and blew the lies.. Good God, you really can’t be this ignorant, can you? Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 14 at 09:03 AM • permalink #243 and 234 ...“the ethnic cleansing of Palestine” would include those Palestinians living and working in Israel, or not? What about the ones serving in the Knesset? Posted by Rob Crawford on 2006 02 14 at 09:04 AM • permalink therzal you are nothing but a racist loudmouth. you have not backed you accusations of genocides by jews with a single shred of evidence. You do not even know what a Zionist is. i suggest you return to Koz or some Revisionist Israeli history website were your comment will be lauded with Zieg Heils . Dandrew is a far more civilised person than you are. Someone call Andrea please Posted by davo on 2006 02 14 at 09:05 AM • permalink Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. Members: Login | Register | Member List Please note: you must use a real email address to register. You will be sent an account activation email. Clicking on the url in the email will automatically activate your account. Until you do so your account will be held in the "pending" list and you won't be able to log in. All accounts that are "pending" for more than one week will be deleted.