Tuesday 28 November 2017

letters 1 CONVOLUTIONS AND SPINNERS: JULIE NATHAN'S ARTICLE

SERIES OF LETTERS ON LINE EX THE OZ WEBSITE.

UNFORTUNATELY THE TOP ITEM WAS CENSORED BY THE AUSTRALIAN EDITOR:
I MANAGED TO CUT AND PASTE IT BEFORE IT WAS CENSORED!!!

This is not the first time The oz has done this!
Geoff Seidner
2. 48 pm Tues 28/11/17





Geoff
pending
CONVOLUTIONS AND SPINNERS: JULIE NATHAN'S ARTICLE

Julie Nathan's lamentable article ATTACKS ON JEWS A THREAT TO ALL SOCIETY 27/11/17 is at best a trite defacto plagiarisation AKA perversion of the famous Niemoler quote of yesteryear.Niemoler's  was brilliant as an original synopsis of how weak mankind can be and sadly always will be.
But  Nathan's headline delienates her obvious inversion in inverting reality by ignoring the elephant in the room: the left.
There are many outrages - not merely ignoring that almost all anti - semitism comes from the left; university lecture rooms, BDS, political parties which she reluctantly admits to in the UK.
In amazingly blaming Donald Trump irrationally for ''condoning and encouraging racist sexist and bigoted sentiment,'' - she deliberately conflates and blames an irrelevant group.
She claims insight that this group of non - entities ''look for inspiration to the mass rallies in Charlottesville...'' and ultra - nationalists in Poland'' and ''other [non - defined!] extreme groups''
She understand the nature of all numbers large and small: this alone makes her ignoring and conflation of the major source of Jew - hatred inexcusable.Her convoluted language clearly shows that she thinks she Edit (in 2 minutes)
Avatar for Geoff






Geoff
Shame on you Harry.
You know every religion in disparate ways regards themselves as the true religion........ you must know this .....it is undebatable.
So why not pick up the multiple dozens of absurdities in Julie Nathan's lame article designed to murder the basic elements of clear thinking and good writing.
Leaden phrases to the left of me...lamentable conflagration with Donald Trump on the sane right.... my goodness this could be endless! Others can see the obvious as well.
Julie N used to write great articles.
But obvious theological Jew hatred will not do Harry.
GS
Avatar for Harry






Harry
Jews will be in a better position to decry non-Jewish supremacism when they loudly and officially drop the claim that they are the Chosen People of the God of All the Universe.
To point out something that is obvious, that claim is supremacist in the extreme.
Plus, to improve their situation, Jews should erect a monument, or endow scholarships, or do similar,  to thank the non-Jews who died, or were made lame, and the families who bore the burden of these losses, in the fight against Nazism.
My earlier comments along these lines were not published here - such is the state of the matter.
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Helen
So WHY did AusAide grant the Israel Hating, Palestinjan, Hamas promoting, "Peace and Conflict Studies" at Sydney University, $500,000 two years ago!!
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Paul
The far left & far right are one and the same both tied to socialism.
Remember the National Socialist Workers Party "NAZI".
Wether socialists are far left or far right evil always follows.
The only safe space against these people is natural conservatism. 






Avatar for Wieslaw






Wieslaw
With my knowledge “ultranacionalists” in Poland are called “Patriots” and all Jews living there do not need
any armed quards, high fences, metal detectors etc. so please don’t spread left side hysteria.






Avatar for James






James
@Wieslaw the only reason Jews in Poland don't need protection is because there are none left. The few who escaped the gas chambers and didn't emigrate but went back to their old homes were shot by their former neighbours. 
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Obeyno1
Won't it be grand if conservatives get their way to allow conscientious objection by private enterprises. It won't just be homosexuals being discriminated against.

17 centuries of anti-antisemitism (accused of being god killers) by Christians and 14 centuries by Muslims hasn't disappeared. 






Avatar for agostino






agostino
Sometimes, it seems that those shouting the loudest about racism are the ones that are most intolerant, shouting down diverse views, protesting, rioting, behaving in anti-social ways and destroying the private properties of people.






Avatar for Harry






Harry
Barry: Jews, silly!
It is central to Jewishness that Jews are the Chosen People of the God of All the Universe.
That is supremacist, to say the obvious.
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Michael
Same heavy rhetoric we've heard before. Coupled with events that are hard to believe.
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David
Surely the greatest threats to the safety of Jewish people comes from Islam. This is apparent from events in UK and Europe.  I recall seeing signs saying 'Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas' at Islamic rallies in Australia along with signs such as "behead those who insult the Prophet'. Jewish schools and synagogues in France find the need to hire security guards. The 'Charlie Hebdo' hit job happened at the same time that people in a kosher supermarket were gunned down. And, quite chillingly, Islamic terrorists in India specifically targeted jews when they massacred numerous people at a major hotel a few years back. I recall reading that they went out of their way to identify anyone who might be jewish. What this has to do with, or how this can be linked to Donald Trump, is beyond me.






Avatar for Jean






Jean
@David. I could not agree with you more. I thought this article was rather delusional. The right may be on the rise in Europe, but most of its rhetoric there has been directed against uncontrolled borders and massive Islamic immigration.
Interesting that the Greens and Labor in Australia have turned to supporting Palestine organisation and its war on Jews...including support of the BDS sanctions against Israel. How does the author equate this as coming from “right” groups?
Avatar for Ron






Ron
Deuteronomy 28:33 says to the people of God: "you shall have nothing but cruel oppression all your days", amongst many other curses, if they disobey Him. Scripture doesn't lie; this article confirms prophecy, as does the course of history.






Avatar for Alastair






Alastair
Um, no they are not Trent, but you will learn that the hard way once the Great Tribulation starts. I suggest you got to YouTube and look up current prophetic visionaries like Amir Tsarfati or J D Farag, you will find that what is happening right now in the world is 100% prophesied in G-d's Word!
Avatar for stephen






stephen
You make sweeping allegations against the Poles and Donald Trump that cannot be maintained.
Trump disavowed the white supremacists in the strongest terms. What more can he do?
In Poland, it was a show of national pride and perhaps antisemetic elements attached themselves to the march but in no possible way could the march be interpreted as an anti Jewish march.
In the religious literature of 25% of the world population, the Jewish people are held in contempt and mistrust but this religion has very little to do with Poland or Trump.






Avatar for Forne






Forne
@stephen Trump did not disavow white supremacists he said something like "there are a some good people among them".   
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Nigel
BDS was invented and is promulgated in left-leaning academia. Antisemitism is a core belief of the left just look at the British Labour party.
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David
They need to be prosecuted and jailed. We dont need these scumbags in Australia.
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Phil
Does it matter whether the rise in anti-semitism is coming from the left or the right? Can't we just condemn it no matter where it originates? I do. I condemn the anti-semitism.
PhilR






Avatar for Richard






Richard
@Phil Of course it matters.  The most effective way to treat a problem is to understand it first.  If you focus on a few crazy so called "right wingers" and ignore the rampant, and establishment approved, anti-semitism of the universities, major political parties, the union movement and governments (British Labour, The Greens, Democrats etc) how can anyone develop effective techniques of fighting it?
Avatar for Obeyno1






Obeyno1
@Phil we can condemn it wherever it comes from. 
However, that shouldn't mean Israel should be free from criticism.
The settlements must stop. 
It does matter where it comes from. It does help to understand what drives it so you can combat it in the battle of ideas.
One sided leftist opposition to Israel is one set of ideas to combat. Racial supremacy and anti -Semitic Christian traditions are other ideas to combat.  
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John
This has the distinct sound of a hoax about it. If we found out who's actually behind 'Antipodean Resistance', we might find it's actually a set-up. 






Avatar for Calvin






Calvin
It is factually wrong and highly inappropriate to imply that Trump is responsible for any anti-semitic behaviours. He has been an articulate and unambiguous supporter of Israel for years, has close Jewish relatives, has worked well with PM Netanyahu, and has been a welcome and stark departure from Obama's constant sniping against Israel. Trump's factual acknowledgement of the Holocaust during his Warsaw speech in July was lauded throughout Poland and Israel...a speech which would have been inconceivable during the Obama years. It is preposterous to imply that Trump is anti-semitic or has encouraged anti-semitism.






Avatar for Patricia






Patricia
@Calvin Perhaps the situation is not black and white? That on the one hand Trump has exhibited laudatory behaviour and that, on the other hand, the GOP more generally and Trump in particular has had strong support from white supremacist groups many of which approve of Hitlerism?
Avatar for Forne






Forne
@Patricia @Calvin There must be people in the US who survived the Holocaust and see it all starting to happen again and a President who praises the white supremacist groups must remind them of another leader and we all know how that ended.  

Avatar for kev of Tas






kev of Tas
Julie Nathan, you have to choose between your obviously leftist ideaology and the TRUTH.
It is the LEFT which is the threat to Jews. It is we conservatives who are your only friends in this country.

Avatar for Patricia






Patricia
1. Conflating 'Jews' with 'Israelis', and vice versa, is racist.
2. Conflating Israeli state bad behaviour with Jewish bad behaviour is racist.
3. Isolating Israel for particular criticisms when several similarly powerful nations exhibit the same behaviour is racist.
4.  Whether Israelis are more or less racist than citizens of other states, and whether this is exhibited in bad Israeli state behaviour, is moot.
5. Racism is so deeply embedded in Australia's power structures, cultural mores, established religions, state and private institutions, and individual values that it anti-semitism and racism towards other groups generally hides in plain sight. Swastikas painted on synagogues, pigs blood poured on mosques, and policing rates of Indigenous youth 20 times that of non-Indigenous youth are the symptoms, not the exceptions.
6. It would be useful to do an exegesis of why 'anti-semitism' deserves a separate term when all other forms of racism lack a specific term. i can see points for and against.
7.  One does not have to go far to find racism or anti-semitism across the political spectrum.

IMO, ascribing anti-semitism to the Left or to the Right is more about Left v Right than anti-semitism per se. 
My view is that conflating the two issues debases the struggle against anti-semitism and the struggle against racism more generally. In addition, an understanding of anti-semitism becomes somewhat lost in the disintegrating conceptual value of dichotomy past its use-by date.
8. I am not sure that far right Israeli politicians, political groups and commentators are doing anyone a favour by framing their political opponents terms of anti-semitism. If they do wish to do so, they should be comprehensive about it. This is not false moral equivalence. It is applying the same standards against the whole political spectrum. They should look at right wing white supremacist groups who support Trump, particularly the ones who are attracted to Hitlerite regalia. Poltiical groups associate with traditional ultra conservative Roman Catholics in states like France and Poland, and in our very own home grown groups such as the League of Rights.
I fear that the general points (above) about social media enabling and encouraging racism of all forms is only too true. 








Avatar for Chris






Chris
@Patricia Take your Leftist hate of Jews under the disgusie of hating Israel somewhere else. It is an intellectually dishonest gambit.
Avatar for Patricia






Patricia
1. My general world view could be described as having a concern for those who are (relatively) powerless and who are suffering as a consequences. This naturally leads to a concern for the victims of all forms of racism. Beyond that, I regard racism as a civilizational threat. At the level of my lived experience, racism tends to diminish us all.
2. While I was inculcated with anti-semitism as part of a traditional European rural conservative Roman Catholicism upbringing, I believe I have come a long way in dealing with it at a personal level. If there is anything at all in my post that needs to be addressed in this context, I would welcome comments. I undertake to examine them with honesty and integrity.
3. I don't hate Israel.

My view is that your sprayed accusations and your arrogant tone detract from us having a useful discussion.
Avatar for kev of Tas






kev of Tas
The most prominent change has been the rise in extreme right-wing activity.
Prominent change - it went from one incident to two.
Meanwhile the large violent barrage anti-semitic actions by leftists and islamists remains constant at about a zillion a year. Very reassuring.

I suggest that this whole article is a desperate attempt to avoid the facts - anti-Semitism is fulled by the LEFT and by islamists.

Avatar for Allan






Allan
Nathan is totally out of touch as the big threat is from the socialist left. Has she been watching the ABC or Fairfax?
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Peter
I was not aware of the need for security services as described, if this is the case this situation is absolutely disgraceful.
Avatar for Chris






Chris
Sorry, but isn't this the same story from 2016 ... and 2015 ... etc.?
Maybe it is true, but my eyes and ears don't tell me it is true (They are the same eyes and ears that tell me, despite 'statistics', that there is little sexual assault on campus, women are doing very well in society and the SSM debate was conducted in a civil manner).
It is difficult for 'research' to be convincing when those who conduct it have a vested interest in the outcome.
Avatar for Ross






Ross
You have far more to fear from ratbags on campus than Swastikas on bus stops.
Avatar for Geoff






Geoff
There are so many labels being attached to people (left, right, etc) when there is such a diversity on the scale.  It's like children doing name-calling without any ability to rationally and intellectually reason out what is going on.
It amazes me that someone who authors a report on anti-Semitism will attempt to lay blame on a supporter of Israel (namely Trump, who did in fact condemn, not condone racism) and let the greatest perpetrators of anti-Semitism off without a mention!






Avatar for kev of Tas






kev of Tas
@Geoff It is safer to attack Trump because there is no danger of retaliation and it might curry favour (for a while) with the REAL enemy.
ie it is appeasement.
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